Comment: Here is a follow up by the guardian.co.uk on the Stephen Lawrence murder in England and how the police fumbled the case and allowed the killers to walk away from the murder with impunity for 18 years. The case has raised serious questions about racism in the London police force.
Some of the matters that disturbed me most about the story were:
• “While the police were failing to catch her son’s murderers, they managed to stop his brother 20 times as a criminal suspect.
• Police also managed to stop Mrs Lawrence the year after the murder and told her she was suspected of driving a stolen car. She says continuing racist stereotyping by officers explains why African-Caribbeans are more likely to be stopped.
• She was told she should be “ashamed to show our faces” by a police employee, during a visit to Scotland Yard in 2009 to discuss her son’s murder.
• The trust she set up in Stephen’s name to help youngsters from deprived backgrounds to realise their ambitions is in financial trouble.”
One of the questions raised in England naturally reflects on the police all over Europe. Is racism and racial profiling an issue in the Finnish police force?
The following case reported on MTV3 suggests that there could be some problems.
Here is a good a case reported by HBL on alleged racial profiling by Finnish customs.
_________________
By Vikram Dodd
Doreen Lawrence has said David Cameron’s government is not doing enough to tackle racial prejudice, which continues to blight society, and has warned that spending cuts will hit working-class and black Britons the hardest.
Hannu
January 28, 2012
Hmm… So police in finland mixed 2 somalis (did they?), other could give name and all and looked like. And borderquard searched for black man… Sure thats facism and racism…. Are you an idiot?
If borderquards search for black man should they inspect white also? It was of course racial profiling, they had info about black man and we arent in country where man can transform as goat so of course they looked black mans.
What if they had info about old 150cm woman, should they inspect young 200cm man too?
eyeopener
January 28, 2012
Dear Hannu.
As far as I know The Finnish Constitution and laws depart from equality for the law, isn’t it? As police, border-guards are executioners of the law it is not for them to decide whether colour, religion, size, gender is a matter. Everybody can be searched for when reasons are there. A single policeman/woman is NOT the judge of such reasons.
I can provide you some cases where police should have acted according to the law but never showed up. I consider these cases as a sign of either public cowardice in the best scenario and in the worst it is an example of racism of a public organization. Actually not doing their job in the formal prescribed way (legal execution of their task). I donm’t need to remind you of similar sistuation throughout Europe. Police-forces like Mets, Paris Police, Antwerp and Brussels Politie, Stuttgart Polizei don’t exactly reflect what the public expects from them. Probably you have a different opinion.
Furthermore, it would be more polite to avoid words like “idiot”. It’s hardly an argument. In addition it tells more about you than the person you accused of this mental stage!!
Hannu
January 28, 2012
Eyeopener i will call one as idiot when he is.
If border has info about black male should they search white females too? Answer that.
justicedemon
January 28, 2012
Hannu
Do you think the police should compensate the innocent driver for the earnings that he lost due to this double identification failure?
Would your answer be the same if you were the victim of a corresponding double error?
Would your answer be the same if such an error occurred in a hospital and you suffered a severe haemolytic transfusion reaction or comparable wholly avoidable injury?
It seems to me that public servants must be held strictly liable for errors that they make in the course of performing their core specialist functions. If identifying members of the public is not a core specialist function of the police, then it is hard to say what could be.
Ahmed should take legal advice with a view to bringing a civil claim against the police. The case could hardly be better documented.
eyeopener
January 28, 2012
Hannu.
Could you please inform what are your criteria to call somebody stupid. And please (again) would you abstain of taken your opinion as “God Almighty” !!
eyeopener
January 28, 2012
And…. to answer your question:
No they should THE black male and not the white female. However, when they have information of A specific white female I expect the border guards to do their job in exactly the same way as they do with THE black man.
By all means: you bring up TWO criteria for search. Probably you ignored these fact. First: colour can bring about complaints about racism. Second: you bring up gender which brings the possibility of complaints on sexism.
Taken this reasoning a little further these TWO aspects create FOUR different situations and possible complaints.
Simplicity is a joy for people with little brains. Like Winnie the Pooh. Or should I conclude Hannu the Poo??
justicedemon
January 28, 2012
One further thought on the case reported on the MTV3.fi website (not sure why you said Ilta-Sanomat, Ricky).
There should be a record of this data request in the pretrial investigation report.
My suspicions are aroused at the reference to a photograph that was “some years old”, as this could very easily refer to unlawful use of a police administrative record. If the data source was the Aliens Register and the victim secured Finnish citizenship more than a year earlier, then this was an unlawful data transfer. Worth looking into.
Allan
January 28, 2012
The police in the mixup case were idiots.
Enrique
January 28, 2012
–One further thought on the case reported on the MTV3.fi website (not sure why you said Ilta-Sanomat, Ricky).
Thank you JusticeDemon. Corrected.
Asian (Realy I am Chinese so I know my own reality)
January 28, 2012
http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/01/26/france-abusive-identity-checks-minority-youth
Kannattaa katsoa. Liittyy epäsuorasti tähän tapaukseen. Poliisin ja mustien viha suhde esiintyy myös Ranskassa.
eyeopener
January 28, 2012
Allan.
Now all of a sudden the police guys are idiot. You are very quick with your assessment.aren’t you. Criteria of stupidity?? or idiocy?? Also a psychiatrist?? A jack of all traeds, isn’t it Allan.
Haven’t they asked you for a Minister post yet in the UK!! You would fit in well with your friend of the Ministry of Education cs.
justicedemon
January 28, 2012
Asian
Kiitos linkistä.
Kiinnittäisin tältä osin huomiota myös Scarmanin selvitykseen vuodesta 1981. Tämä ei ole mikään uusi asia ja kehitys on ollut tosi hidasta.
Vastaava on koettu myös ainakin pääkaupunkiseudulla. Aina kun osallistuu maahanmuuttajille suunattuun viranomaistilaisuuteen missä poliisi on edustettuna kannattaa kysellä yleisöltä ketkä ovat joutuneet henkilöllisyystarkastukseen julkisessa paikassa. Sillä saa helposti selvän vaikutelman, että ihonvärillä on oma osuutensa asiaan.
Hannu
January 28, 2012
Justicedemon if there was error then of course officials has to pay damages. Only irk i had with that was that enrique took it example of racism while it really was incompetence by police or clever fraud by “innocent”. I have been in “lets check your identidy” by police and thats hard to pass if you dont really know all about life of one you pretend to be.
Hannu
January 28, 2012
Justicedemon tottakai ihonvärillä on merkitystä, montako valkoista tulee suomeen laittomasti ja mikä valkoisten osuus on maassa laittomasti olevista.
Olisi kertakaikkiaan typerää olla huomioimatta tätä ja tehdä kuten englannissa jossa poliisit tarkastavat valkoisia vain siitä syystä että tilastot tarkastuksista näyttäisivät poliittisesti korrekteilta.
Resurssien tuhlausta sanon minä.
Minä henkilökohtaisesti olen joutunut tarkastuksen kohteeksi monesti ja kyllä syynä on ollut profilointi, nuori joka ajaa vanhalla autolla, pysaytetään. Hampuusin näköinen poistumassa alueelta jossa tehtiin rikos, pysaytetään. Etsitään alueelta henkilöä joka sopii minun tuntomerkkeihin, pysäytetään. Kerran oli kyllä ihme pysäytys ja henkkareitten kattominen, ei mitään hajua miksi.
Ei minulla ole ikinä ollut ongelmaa tuon kanssa, mulla on henkkarit matkassa.
Samoten tuohon ranskan tapaukseen, googlaa no go zone
justicedemon
January 28, 2012
Hannu
Veikkaisin suurella todennäköisyydellä, että suuri valtaosa maassa laittomasti oleskelevista olisivat ihonväriltään valkoisia siitä yksinkertaisista syystä, että maahan tulevat ovat ylivoimaisesti sellaisia. Nyt puhutaan yli 9 miiljoonasta rajanylityksestä vuodessa ja laittomasti maassa oleskeleva on aina pääosiltaan sellainen, jonka oleskelulupaan tai viisumiin perustuva tai vastaavasti sallittu enimmäisaika on umpeutunut. Suurin yksittäinen ryhmä olisi hyvin todennäköisesti venäläiset. Myös mm. pohjoisamerikkalainen seikkailuturisti voi ylittää Schengen-viisumilla sallitun ajan Suomessa.
Karu tosiasia on kuitenkin se, että mainitsemissani viranomaistilaisuuksissa nostaa kädet aina ja yksinomaan mustaihoisia maahanmuuttajia. Juuri sen takia kyseistä osoitusta kannattaa järjestää tällaisissa tilaisuuksissa.
Mikäli näissä asioissa poliisi toimisi oikeassa suhteessa, hävisi varsin nopeasti poliisin maineen matalaprofiilitoiminnasta. Ajatelkaapas niin, että jokainen kansalainen joutuisi 10 kertaa vuodessa sellaiseen tarkistukseen. Kuinka kauan sellaista toimintaa käskenyt sisäasianministeri jäisi virkaansa?
Mihin perustuu väitteesi, että poliisi toimii näin Englannissa?
Oletko huomanut, että ihonvärisi ei kuulunut mainitsemaasi profilointiin? Miksi? Oletko rikoksiin kykenemätön ihonvärisi takia?